Paint-by-numbers

[Bryan Liles]

First before I say anything, I would like to thank everyone for all the
time spent contributing code, generating documentation, and answering
questions on netsaint/nagios lists.

Systems/Network monitoring is a complex task.  It is very easy to say
that I want to monitor "host A".  The bigger more complex question is:
What do I mean when I say that I want to monitor "host A"?

Until you understand the concepts of systems/network monitoring, and
importance of dependencies, and the importance of understanding what you
are trying to monitor, you will never "get it".

Nagios is a great product for simple network management.  The facilities
of data collection, presentation, and notification are great.  Does this
mean that Nagios is the end all to network management?  No, there are
other commercial and open sourced applications out there made by the
likes of HP, CA, IBM and others that might be more to your liking. 

So, why do I think Nagios is so good?

Well in my eyes, the best management systems will just be a shell that
will allow me to use my own plugins.  Plus, I get the source with
Nagios.  I can change the look and feel other web interface.  I can have
nagios issue alerts straight my DCL setup that will then generate a Work
Order for the problem.  When the system detects this Work Order, it will
determine if it can fix it, if not, I will get alerted.  If I don't
repsond, my backups and my management will be notified.  Does your
Nagios setup look this?  Probably not.  Nagios is 100% customized for my
situation, and it works like a champ. 

What do I suggest for new users?

The first thing that I will suggest is research.  Before you download
and attempt to configure Nagios, please understand the project you are
trying to undertake.  Sure, you want to monitor "host A", but what does
"host A" do?  Is it a mail server, DNS server, web server, application
server, or a combination of the previously mentioned or something
totally different.  How does "host A" interact with "host B", and "host
C", and "router D"?

I might even suggest buying a book on network management, so you can
understand the philosophies and the best practice approaches to your
problems.

After you have an idea of what you are trying to monitor, you can slowly
move forward in your attempt to configure Nagios to your liking.  The
Nagios mailing list archives and the Nagios website documentation may be
a bit sparse to a new user trying to build a configuration for the first
time.  Please take time to read them anyways, because most of the time,
your answer will already answered in the Nagios documentation or in the
mailing list archives.

I will say again that Nagios is a great product.  It beat our an
opposing bid at my place of employment from a competitor using big name
products from Concorde and HP.  With a bit of knowledge of what you are
trying to manage, and the best set of tools you would use to manage it
with, Nagios will run like a charm.

Thank you for reading my rant.


On Wed, 2002-10-16 at 00:58, Ethan Galstad wrote:
> I might as well through my 2 cents into this little discussion.  Here 
> goes...
> 
> To say that the Nagios docs are among the worst out there for open 
> source network apps probably isn't true.  Check out other monitoring 
> apps on SourceForge and have a look at their documentation sometime.  
> To say that it sucks for new users is probably very true though. 
> Nagios has a high learning curve.
> 
> I wrote about 95% of the current documentation and hated every second 
> of it.  In fact, the only thing I hate more than reading 
> documentation is writing it.  Writing 1-2-3 "paint by numbers" 
> documentation would be nice for new users to have (if they read it), 
> but I can't really be the one to do it.  I'm so far removed from 
> knowing what a newbie's perspective is that it wouldn't do me much 
> good to try anyway.  Developers don't usually write docs for end 
> users because they (a) are too close to the product and (b) probably 
> lack basic "grammir skillz" brought on by caffeine overdose and sleep 
> deprivation.  Both apply to me.
> 
> If the documentation is lacking, people need to step up and 
> contribute.  That's how things get done.  In this case, people who 
> have just reached the "aha" stage of the learning curve should be 
> writing the docs for newbies.  Something to think about if you just 
> got Nagios up and running...  
> 
> BTW, I do think "A Paint-By-Numbers Guide To Installing Nagios" is a 
> great title for new documentation. :-)
> 
> 
> 
> On 15 Oct 2002 at 13:51, Carroll, Jim P [Contractor] wrote:
> 
> > My first comment is one of administrivia.  Please do not change the Subject,
> > as it breaks software which organizes mailing lists by subject thread.
> > 
> > > >You also say that Nagios is poorly documented (for) "the 
> > > common user)."
> > > >Maybe I'm missing something, but Nagios appears (to me) to 
> > > be targetted for
> > > >installation by an experienced UNIX/Linux systems 
> > > administrator, not the
> > > >common user.
> > > 
> > > But you have to admit, even the experienced admin guy 
> > > scratches his head
> > > over it
> > > from time to time. 
> > 
> > I scratch my head because I'm doing "what if" scenarios in my head.  And you
> > know what the solution to this is?  Just do it.
> > 
> > > >One of the problems of the "paint-by-numbers" approach is 
> > > that everyone
> > > ends
> > > >up with the same picture.  Want sample config files?  
> > > They're there.  Want
> > > >more examples/suggestions?  That's what this mailing list is for.
> > > 
> > > Paint-by-number for common tasks is a big "time saver". I for 
> > > one don't want
> > > to be working 60hr weeks cause it is taking me hours and hours to get
> > > something "simple" configured that if I had a basic "blue 
> > > print" would have
> > > cut the time by 1/2. 
> > 
> > 1. The "blue print" here is called "documentation".  It exists.  And it
> > works.
> > 
> > 2. If you're working 60hr weeks to get a basic configuration of Nagios to
> > work, perhaps you're in over your head.  Even half of that, 30 hours, is far
> > too much time to be spending on something as a rudimentary configuration of
> > Nagios.
> > 
> > > If the paint-by-numbers method is not good, then all the user manuals
> > > written over the past 30+yrs are incorrect and should be scrapped. :)
> > 
> > I've yet to see a paint-by-numbers manual in my 14 years as a UNIX systems
> > administrator.  You must be thinking about a book on how to paint by
> > numbers.
> > 
> > > This list is fantastic. Without this list, it would be almost 
> > > impossible for
> > > new Nagios users to get the product up and running in a 
> > > somewhat timely
> > > fashion. 
> > 
> > New Nagios users?  Or new to UNIX/Linux systems administration?  An
> > executive in a company doesn't need to know the first thing about the
> > Bourne/bash shell, but equipped with a web browser on a functional (and
> > properly configured) computer, this executive could login to Nagios and
> > browse.
> > 
> > > >Looking for help configuring Apache?  That's not really what 
> > > Nagios or this
> > > >mailing list is about, but you might find someone willing to help you
> > > there.
> > > 
> > > Would be great to have a "top 10" problems U might encounter 
> > > installing
> > > nagios with Apache. I would consider this almost a must. without a web
> > > server Nagios is worthless. It shouldn't be a 700 page repeat 
> > > of apache
> > > docs, but a happy medium
> > 
> > Hint:  http://www.apache.org/
> > 
> > > >Looking for help configuring Sendmail so you can get your 
> > > notifications?
> > > >Again, that's not really what Nagios/this mailing list is 
> > > about, but you
> > > >might find someone (like myself) willing to help out.
> > > 
> > > Again, having a "top 10" problems or providing a basic config 
> > > as part of the
> > > docs or a supplemental doc would be a great time saver. 
> > > Sendmail is probably
> > > used by 70%+ of users to send out notifications
> > 
> > Don't get me started on Sendmail.  Or DNS/BIND.  Or how to build a firewall.
> > These are all subjects which take a modest amount of effort to understand
> > and configure properly.  If given a boilerplate example based on a number of
> > assumptions, it will invariably lead the majority of newbies to "it didn't
> > work/it broke/etc".  Then you're back into the loop of "what's your
> > configuration, what are you trying to do, etc."  Many times a person will
> > say what they're trying to accomplish at the micro level, while trying to
> > obscure what they're trying to accomplish in the big picture.  (I know,
> > because I've caught myself doing this very thing.)  In the final analysis,
> > these examples that I suspect you're looking for will lead you to believe
> > that it can only be done the one way.  I urge you to go back and *slowly*
> > read over the documentation.  (I say this, because I know I'm the impatient
> > type, when it comes to getting something as powerful as Nagios up and
> > running; I tend to skim lightly over what the salient points appear to be,
> > and if it doesn't work, drill down a bit at a time.  Patience is a virtue.)
> > 
> > As someone else has suggested, if you're not happy with the current
> > documentation, you're more than welcome to write up your own and either
> > offer it here, or ask Ethan to host it on his site.
> > 
> > > >Nagios is vast, of that there is no doubt.  If you feel 
> > > you're qualified to
> > > >do the installation, then by all means, hang in there; 
> > > frustration is a
> > > sign
> > > >that success is just around the corner.  :)
> > > 
> > > You are correct, the amount of info supplied with Nagios is vast. But
> > > without more paint-by-numbers examples, new users to the 
> > > product don't know
> > > what to ask for or how to ask it. They become frustrated and 
> > > "give up".
> > 
> > It sounds as if you have some statistics (of newcomers to Nagios) to back up
> > your claim.  Please share with the list.
> > 
> > jc
> > 
> > 
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> > _______________________________________________
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> > 
> 
> 
> 
> Ethan Galstad,
> Nagios Developer
> ---
> Email: nagios at nagios.org
> Website: http://www.nagios.org
> 
> 
> 
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